I agree with you that this is a question about the prudence of terms, not the condemnation of the doctrine. It's ironic how much Cardinal Fernandez now cares about the clarity of terms.
Not sure your comparison with Eve is right. She *did* sin, as did Adam, so she is really a "co-peccatrix." But Mary's role in redemption is not an exact parallel. She does not "co-redeem" with Christ like Eve "co-sinned" with Adam. She plays an crucial role in salvation history, but Christ is our one redeemer.
I don’t know how I feel about this yet. I can see why the title “co-mediatrix” can scandalize both Protestants and nominal Catholics. I’m just worried some fundamentalists will run with this and use it as more ammunition to attack the Pope and the failure of Vatican II.
I may be splitting hairs but I'm not sure public dissent is appropriate in this case. I think your characterization of it is correct (low Magisterium) but my understanding is that this is not appropriate for public dissent, even in a respectful fashion. From LG 25 "Bishops, teaching in communion with the Roman Pontiff, are to be respected by all as witnesses to divine and Catholic truth. In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent." Would love to hear the rationale behind that assertion, because I may very well be misinterpreting this.
Yeah I’m not trying to dissent, like I said the doctrine expressed by “coredemptrix” is still sound but the issue is whether the title accurately reflects it. The DDF has advised it doesn’t “in this case” (the case being it needs multiple explanations to justify it)
Patrick, thank you for the response! I'm sorry I was not clearer, I understand your position and I agree with it. I was just curious about your statment that "Catholics can respectfully disagree while remaining obedient." Again, I may be spliiting hairs or misinterpreting LG (and Canon law) here. I am genuinely curious about this. Thank you again, God bless!
As I do more research on understanding how the medieval man understood Mary, she was understood as person and place. “My sister, my spouse, is a garden enclosed.” Songs 4:13. God walked with us in the garden, Christ’s sweat blood in a garden, Christ appeared to Magdalene after he rose as a gardener. The Church should take her time understanding Mary as co-redemptrix. If we understand her as place, as an ‘enclosed garden’, it is a garden that bears food, the Eucharist through the work of human hands. We see this play out at Mass. If the modern man views her from this standpoint, that adds another layer of complexity. I personally believe this is the quest for clean food and ‘back to nature’ and the new age movement is looking for a mother. It’s that ‘I feel like I am missing something’. It is our Mother as ‘place’. “Behold thy mother’ John 19:27. Our story begins in a garden and the enmity between the serpent and the woman and her seed took place in a garden. There is no way a short response can answer the complexities of Mary as person and place. The Church is right for taking her time to clarify and unpack the mysteries of this Woman who is Virgin, bride, and mother. Characteristics shared with women, the earth, and the Church.
I think the term is perfect and they should leave it alone. You don't fix what's not broken and our Blessed Mother is beyond reproach.
I tend to agree. I think they’re worried about excess but I don’t see much at all
I agree with you that this is a question about the prudence of terms, not the condemnation of the doctrine. It's ironic how much Cardinal Fernandez now cares about the clarity of terms.
Yeah…lol
One of the few people on here actually take time to go through it, give an account that is using a hermenutic of continuity
Thanks!
Very clear and concise! I am orthodox but I was curious about what was going on. Thank you for explaining
Not sure your comparison with Eve is right. She *did* sin, as did Adam, so she is really a "co-peccatrix." But Mary's role in redemption is not an exact parallel. She does not "co-redeem" with Christ like Eve "co-sinned" with Adam. She plays an crucial role in salvation history, but Christ is our one redeemer.
I don’t know how I feel about this yet. I can see why the title “co-mediatrix” can scandalize both Protestants and nominal Catholics. I’m just worried some fundamentalists will run with this and use it as more ammunition to attack the Pope and the failure of Vatican II.
I didn't know this even happened. I suspect they will eventually decide that the term is still the best one to use
I may be splitting hairs but I'm not sure public dissent is appropriate in this case. I think your characterization of it is correct (low Magisterium) but my understanding is that this is not appropriate for public dissent, even in a respectful fashion. From LG 25 "Bishops, teaching in communion with the Roman Pontiff, are to be respected by all as witnesses to divine and Catholic truth. In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent." Would love to hear the rationale behind that assertion, because I may very well be misinterpreting this.
Yeah I’m not trying to dissent, like I said the doctrine expressed by “coredemptrix” is still sound but the issue is whether the title accurately reflects it. The DDF has advised it doesn’t “in this case” (the case being it needs multiple explanations to justify it)
Patrick, thank you for the response! I'm sorry I was not clearer, I understand your position and I agree with it. I was just curious about your statment that "Catholics can respectfully disagree while remaining obedient." Again, I may be spliiting hairs or misinterpreting LG (and Canon law) here. I am genuinely curious about this. Thank you again, God bless!
Oh gotcha, yeah I mean Catholics can obey the directive (don’t use the term) while still disagreeing with the logic behind the directive
As I do more research on understanding how the medieval man understood Mary, she was understood as person and place. “My sister, my spouse, is a garden enclosed.” Songs 4:13. God walked with us in the garden, Christ’s sweat blood in a garden, Christ appeared to Magdalene after he rose as a gardener. The Church should take her time understanding Mary as co-redemptrix. If we understand her as place, as an ‘enclosed garden’, it is a garden that bears food, the Eucharist through the work of human hands. We see this play out at Mass. If the modern man views her from this standpoint, that adds another layer of complexity. I personally believe this is the quest for clean food and ‘back to nature’ and the new age movement is looking for a mother. It’s that ‘I feel like I am missing something’. It is our Mother as ‘place’. “Behold thy mother’ John 19:27. Our story begins in a garden and the enmity between the serpent and the woman and her seed took place in a garden. There is no way a short response can answer the complexities of Mary as person and place. The Church is right for taking her time to clarify and unpack the mysteries of this Woman who is Virgin, bride, and mother. Characteristics shared with women, the earth, and the Church.